Yesterday (9/23/2010) Dr. William Bradshaw of BYU’s Department of Microbiology and Molecular Biology delivered a lecture entitled “The Evidence For A Biological Origin For Homosexuality” at Brigham Young University. The audio can be accessed below, or on the Mormon Stories podcast feed. The visuals can be accessed here.
Dr. Bradshaw is a former mission president, former member of a stake presidency, has written about the biology of homosexuality elsewhere, and was covered by BYU’s Daily Universe here. He is also the host on a short video entitled, “Embracing our Homosexual Children.”
We will soon be releasing a full Mormon Stories interview w/ Dr. Bradshaw.
(This presentation was recorded and is provided with full permission of Dr. Bradshaw).
In my opinion the origins of same sex attraction really can’t be pinpointed to one cause. I believe each and every person’s sexuality is as unique as a fingerprint. Sexuality is different between heterosexuals as a group as well as those who are sexually attracted to their same sex. Every individual’s sexual likes and dislikes aren’t going to specifically be the same in any group. Just like if two different people view a piece of art, their opinions are most likely going to be different. Thus I believe that an individual’s sexuality is influenced by many things, including biology as well as environment. Choice and experimentation for self gratification I believe do play a factor too. The bottom line I think is this; it really doesn’t matter what the causes of same sex attraction are because I don’t think every case can be fitted into the same box. No matter what the cause is it’s a tough subject to address. As a member of the LDS Church in good standing I think you have to view the big picture. Not everything in life is going to seem fair. For example; why are some children born in loving homes and enjoy having all of their physical and emotional needs met, while at the same time there are children born to abusive homes who are neglected as to their physical and emotional needs? I honestly don’t know, but it appears to be unfair. I believe in order to sin you first have to know what you’re doing is wrong. In order to repent you have to try your best to rectify the sin. This is where the Atonement of Jesus Christ comes in, to rectify what we can’t concerning our sins. I testify boldly of the reality of Jesus Christ. I know he lives and loves us no matter what. For those who are struggling with same sex attraction; please seek help, you ARE worthwhile, you ARE loved. Don’t give up.
I don’t want to start anything between me or anyone else on this page. The only thing that I want to say is this:
It does NOT matter whether or not you are Catholic, Christian, or LDS if you cannot be Christ-Like in EVERYTHING you do in your life -INCLUDING- the judgements of other people, you better not sit here and claim that you are a Christian. I can’t stand when people claim to be a faithful member of whatever faith they choose to be and instantly turn around and prosecute against gays or lesbians. Being “Christ-like” MEANS to accept and love anyone REGARDLESS of what they choose to do in their lives and to Righteously Judge people. I can’t honestly believe that we have a God that will not love or support all of his children- regardless of what they choose to do in their life.
Some of the things I’ve read have honestly made me sick. It is not your right to judge other people. Ever. Because in the end, when all is said and done- they do not have to come to you and confess their sins to you. They confess to the Big Man upstairs. And for some people to honestly sit here and point fingers to tell people that what they think or do is wrong is really just so wrong.
Now I’m not saying that Homosexuality is a sin, I’m just trying to prove a point. It doesn’t matter what the people in this world do. Its not your job to “Damn them to Hell”.
For those who have supported this article, I want to thank you for writing everything that you wrote. It’s really nice to be able to read and agree with other people when I’m surrounded by a very hateful people.
God Bless
Biology is not the same as genetics. For expl, hormonal differences could contribute to a predominance of female or male orientation in either gender. And hormonal variation can be random/accidental, i.e., not systematic or rooted in a genetic pattern.
To date, I have seen no research demonstrating systematic hormonal association.
To date there is no direct evidence for genetic basis. Indeed, in the last review in “Science” magazine, it was concluded that no genetic basis has been found and such probably does not exist.
Twin studies (assumed to represent indirect evidence of genetic connection) are mixed in results, show (at most) a weak correlation, and can be explained social psychologically as easily as biologically.
Likewise, the weak association between “handedness” and sexual orientation can also be explained social psychologically.
Brain structure studies are worse than weak. For expl, LeVay’s famous study is no longer given serious consideration because it was so flawed methodologically. (For expl, no independent or objective identification of those corpses he labeled homosexual.)
Predominant hormonal combination may produce an “orientation” or leaning, but is not the same as behavior or force/cause behavior. Most humans have some significant sexual drive, but that does not force sexual activity, e.g., intercourse, including outside marriage (adultery or fornication). Whatever “orientation” might be, behavior is a choice.
Good job Bill I wish you well within the walls of Mormonism. Personally I don’t need science to confirm what I already know in my heart. I see us all non – separate and one with God despite our preferences in mates, friendships, partners,wives, lovers…… Love and forgiveness is all that matters. God did not create us to fail or follow the teachings of men. Cheers to my Gay/Lesbian Friends, co-workers, and Neighbors. May you have love and joy in your lives and have long fulfilling relationships.
I do not find it necessary to explain my behavior. It seems to me that those that do, are uneasy in their choices. If you must force people to accept your way of life maybe that should tell you something. Islam is like that too, it wants everyone to be a part of it and if not you should die, from those I have spoken with they don’t want a life like that. Have we forgotten of the war in Heaven? The two plans laid out in front of us? One where we choose or the one where we are forced? We all have choices. How we act, think and live should be up to us. However looking back at Adam and Eve they too had a choice. One took and ate from the tree of life and knowledge and the other ate to live out his fathers commandments. But in doing so they both had to face consequences for their actions. We have warped our sense of being in a age without holding ourselves responsible. We have become accustom to lashing out at others for our own short comings. We are here, all brothers and sisters. We are here to learn, live and try to love one another without preconditions. We have been given a set of guidelines on how to live, the ten commandments. We have been given examples throughout life showing us mistakes of others and what the outcome of their choices were. History, I know no one likes it but it is there. Read, the bible and other books shows the choices others had made and where it took them. Biology and science is just the human way of trying to understand the enormous wealth of knowledge our father in heaven has. We make our own choices, we live and will be judged by them. As long as you can sleep knowing all your choices are correct, then at the final judgment day you will not be numbered with the ones wailing and gnashing your teeth.
With love for all.
Vanessa,
It is just not Biblically supportable to say that we must NEVER Judge. The Bible clearly tells us to judge only if we have cast out the beam in our eye. We must judge righteous judgment, with love, so that when we are judged by Christ, we may be likewise judged. As a rule of thumb, it is wise to not judge a person, but there are times when judging is essential. Do you suppose God would be unhappy with a person for deciding not marry a particular person because they don’t share the same kinds of life goals? Of course not! In fact, God tells us not to be unequally yoked in marriage. This is a form of judgment! I submit that it is also essential to judge a particular way of life. To judge actions or a lifestyle, that is perfectly fine. We are supposed to make those kinds of judgments. We are supposed to look at a lifestyle and say “is this what is right for me? is this what God would have me do?” These are judgments! The Bible is clear on God’s stance on Homosexuality. To say that it is a sin is judging a lifestyle, not a person or people. Is it unrighteous to say a liar is sinning? Is it unjust to say adultery is sinful? Is it bad to say that murder is wicked? Of course not!
Now, I agree with the heart of your point. We must love one another–period. But to say that we must accept the sinner for who he or she is, that is just not scriptural. Christ has sent us out into the world to witness for Him, and to invite all to come unto Him. We must do as He would have done. He encouraged all to live better. He told the woman taken in adultery that he did not condemn her to death, but that she must “sin no more.” This is not accepting her for who she is. It is encouraging her to be who she could be through Christ.
I don’t know many people who truly understand the Gospel who would “damn [homosexuals] to hell.” I think you are making an unfair generalization of those who comment on this issue. To say it is a sin does not damn anyone. It is a statement of fact. Through Christ, all sinners may repent. That is the point. No one is damning anyone, and if you want to participate in a conversation in a fair and intelligent manner, you need to try to understand those who oppose your views, not create caricatures of their positions. Love one another, even as [Christ has loved them]. Christ told people to repent all the time. Not from condemnation or unrighteous judgment, but from love.
Yes, saying homosexuality is a sin is a statement of fact. A nonsense statement of fact, but a statement nonetheless. Sin like God is a product of imagination.
I’ll just say what I always say. Homosexuality may or may not be proved to have biological/genetic/pre-natal origins. It may, in fact, be encouraged by early childhood environmental factors.
Either way, it is a natural occurrence, which happens to a significant part of the population (5-10%) and there is nothing wrong with it.
I hope that people don’t start aborting their babies because of some biological evidence of future same-sex attraction.
The 10% of population being homosexual is a myth without scientific basis. In studies conducted by the National Science Foundation and its equivalent in Europe the conclusion is that the range of occurrence is 1% to 3%.
There also seems to be a significant difference between male and female homosexuals in terms of motivation (what is sought) and behavior. For females there seems to be more companionship and tenderness sought as a reaction against some male treatment.
Homosexual orientation and behavior are complex phenomena and not reducible to a single model of causation or correlation.
.Pres. Ezra Taft Benson once wrote (and I paraphrase because I do not have his writing at hand) “God gives us guidelines by which to live, and leaves it up to us to fill in the dots”. To fill in the dots requires us to make choices based upon our agency. Whatever the choice, we are stuck with the consequence. Agency and consequences are natural, or eternal laws, as eternal as God. Humans make the choices, essentially, founded upon knowledge and understanding of the circumstances surrounding the choice. We are guided by our conscience, by wiser beings, by experience, etc. Choices made in same gender attraction situations are based (as I understand it) upon very strong feelings. Who in all humanity can judge another person’s feelings? Not I!
Therefore, I embrace the stand of the LDS Church. Some actions are condemned by God, but He still loves each individual, as should we all. The actions are forbidden, but the feelings are not condemned, and as long as ANY member is faithful to the commandments of God, he or she is worthy to participate fully in ALL the ordinances and sacraments.To ACT upon feelings contrary to Gospel principles leads to negative consequences.
We all have strong feelings and desires: tobacco, drugs, alcohol, lust, envy and coveting, and many more. They are extremely difficult to ignore. So, when we freely make the connection of the dots (choose) we know there will be consequences. And we have to live with them. We, individually, are the judges of ourselves. I can truthfully say, from my personal experiences, that God lives, He loves each one of us, and desires only our happiness.
God nor anyone has the right to judge or discriminate against anyone for who they Naturally are and want to be,if anything we have the right to judge God as the biggest Hypocrite,tyrant,dictator lunatic Deity that was ever INVENTED !! Shamefully invented might i add,however what gives me the rite to say this is the evidence from your very own scripture’s especially the old testament where God himself openly gives countless discourses on how to keep slaves,animal sacrifices,Bigotry,divisions,murder of innocent men,woman and children along with discrimination and racism…Don’t believe me ?? feel free to read it yourself starting in Exodus continuing on through Deuteronomy,Leviticus and all through out Mormon Doctrine and theologies, “with out cherry picking” ask yourself can this be taken literally…..the answer of any rational person should be absolutely NOT!!!.God’s IMMORAL example or advice should be the LAST one we should consider following.We are all free to live and to pursue a life of happiness free from religious persecution’s,the ignorance of those of Faith who seem to be the first ones to cast stones in order to protect their hidden agendas,and delusion’s have only them selves to judge first….SO LIVE AND LET LIVE…..thank God im Not Religious !!
So many people refusing to hear the clarion call to self-control, to self-mastery.
So many people adamantly refusing to seek wisdom…..
This is really good. I wish it was in video.
First of all, I have a message for, Dave: Islam teaches that it is a sin to kill ANYONE. Saying that “Islam” wants all who are not a part of it to die, is incorrect. SURE, 2% of EXTREEMIST Muslims do believe this. The individuals who hold this belief are excommunicate from Islam and are basically banished from the faith. This belief is treated by Islam in the exact same way Polygamy is treated in the LDS church. Those who practice it are no longer apart of the religion. The ACTUAL belief on this issue is the same as what the LDS church teaches. This belief is as follows: Teach Islam to those who you encounter, if they don’t except it pray for them that they may one day be able to except Islam and keep an open dialogue, treat those who are not a Muslim WITH respect, WITH love, WITH kindness, WITH charity, TREAT those who ARE NOT a member of Islam as you treat yourself. The idea to kill all those who are not Muslim is ludicrous. This is like the prophet telling missionaries to shoot everyone who doesn’t answer their door when they knock on it.
My second comment is meant for Vanessa: I loved your post. Thank you for posing!
Lastly, I loved this presentation. As a Gay worthy Mormon I appreciate this research more than anything I have listened to in a long time!
Having been Gay for as long as I can remember (yes, I was the kindergartener who would flirt with the other boys in the class), it is research like this that will help the LDS religion and the cultures of the world to except everyone in a manner that will help build our world into what the Lord wishes it to be, Love and Unity. The LDS Church has not yet produced a position on what makes us “Gay,” research like this brings the Church another step closer to better be able to instruct its members in a manner that will help to build a more understanding and unified world.
@Troy,
Have you read the New testament? I think Christ knew as well as you do that the Old Testament, Law of Moses, was not the ideal. He taught a better way. Those times seem barbaric to us now, but I bet that if you had lived in those days you would have been one of the best throat slashers around. LoL
As in all things, Christ is our perfect example. As Pres. Uchdorf said in his talk on pride in the Priesthood Session of General Conference, we should see the world around us through the lens of the pure love of Christ. And to quote from the Church’s statement in response to a Human Rights Petition, “We join voice with others in unreserved condemnation of acts of cruelty or attempts to belittle or mock any group or individual that is different–whether those differences arise from race, religion, mental challenges, social status, sexual orientation or for any other reason. Such actions simply have no place in our society. . .Each Latter-day Saint family & individual should carefully consider whether their attitudes & actions toward others properly reflect Jesus Christ’s second great commandment–to love one another. . .” We can all do better.
I think scientific exploration of such possibilities are very important, and not for political or social reasons, rather for the endeavor of understanding all things.
Good to know information. Good research and understanding. Nice to know that LDS is open to let the truth come out.
I was wondering if anyone knew if brother Bradshaw has a gay son?
People have an easy time realizing that God loves everyone despite whether they obey his commandments or not, in fact he loves everyone regardless of what they do. That’s easy. We get it. What people have a difficult time realizing is that loving someone, I mean sincerely and truly loving someone, doesn’t mean that we agree with/support their decisions. Is supporting a person the same as supporting their decisions. I don’t think so, but you can answer that for yourselves. I don’t think I judge homosexuals in anyway, other than if I hear that a girl is gay I assume she is going to be kind of butch. But I make no judgments on a persons ability, or value on finding out that they are homosexual. I know that biological or not they still don’t choose their homosexuality. They choose it like I chose my mother tongue.
Thank you John for posting this and thank you Dr. Bradshaw for the great lecture and your openness. It was very informative and moving at times. The simple spreading of these facts would go a long way in changing the popular notion of homosexuality amongst church members, which would eventually have an effect on the official leadership positions.
I hope that what we’ve heard in this podcast is a glimpse of what a 21st century President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints could be. For the sake of my children, and for my grandchildren yet to be born, I hope it does not take the full 90 years.
I hope that we all can return to Dr. Bradshaw’s final words beginning at 23 min, 5 seconds and running to the end. I join with John in affirming that Dr. Bradshaw’s thoughts were indeed plenty insightful. They were the finest expression of humanity that I have heard from a Mormon in my 33 years of association with the Church. Thank you Dr. Bradshaw.
Thanks for bringing an informative scientific presentation to a deserving topic.
This was an excellent presentation! I’m really grateful for the time and effort Dr. Bradshaw put into this lecture. I only have one minor gripe. This presentation would’ve been ideal as a video. Following along with the slides was difficult.
i’m5th generation in the church – i’m gay…and there is nothing wrong with it. it’s like breathing.
Do you mean there is nothing wrong with being gay (I agree) or nothing wrong with acting on a sexual desire (jury is still out for me on this one)?
I am not LDS nor any particular religious group. I’m very impressed with the open-minded, compassionate thinking that I’ve read by some, but by all mean not all, individuals on this site. I must admit that I didn’t expect this. Kudos to Dr. Bradshaw and other compassionate people who exhibit true love for all human beings.
What any of us think is irrelevant … Our Lord and Savior said “Not my will but thine be done.”
God the Father has said that when a man lies with another man as he would with a woman [homosexual intercourse], it is an abomination.
Our duty is to love our homosexually inclined brothers and sisters as ourselves and counsel them to follow the example of the Savior.
Wow. And in the same book, it says that if a man marry a woman who isn’t a virgin, she must be executed. And that a rape victim must marry her rapist. And that men should have concubines, apart from their wives. And that a sonless widow must sexually submit to her deceased husband’s brother. I could go on.
The Bible is hardly an authority on marriage unless you just want to pick and choose which parts to apply and condemn with.
Some details of the Mosaic Law are archaic, but it would be a serious error in thinking for us to conclude that if some of the Torah no longer applies, then none of it applies. Yes, we do not live in a theocracy and we are not ancient Israelites. However, moral aspects of the Law still apply, as cited in the New Testament.
As Jesus of Nazareth indicated, marriage was ordained by God to be between a man and a woman. Because there have been variations on the theme of marriage does not mean that there has never been a theme, i.e. the core feature that spouses have always been male and female.
If God does exist and Jesus was who He claimed to be, then they would authorities on marriage and sexual behavior.
Oh, so you just pick and choose which parts of the old testament should be applied in your attack on sexuality? Doesn’t it seem convenient that you only choose to apply the parts that you agree with? You’re the one citing archaic Hebrew cultural practices (“man lying with another man”) as being absolute moral law. I’m just saying you should be consistant. If you’re going to condemn homosexuals on the basis of some “holiness-code” written thousands of years ago, you should be willing to apply that same holiness code wherever else it applies.
One might be able to argue that homosexual behavior is a “sin”, that it violates God’s plan, that it is just plain wrong. But do not say that it is in scripture, do not say that it was taught by Jesus in scripture and do not say that it was implied in scripture unless you are willing to apply those same scriptures to everybody equally.
What do you mean, Jesus “indicated”?
http://beingmormonandgay.blogspot.com/
Stephen Fry on commenting on the Catholic Church said the following… and I believe that his assessment applies equally to the Mormon church, and its members.
“It is the strange thing about this church, it is obsessed with sex. Absolutely obsessed. Now they would say that we with our permissive society and our rude jokes, are obsessed. But no. We have a healthy attitude. We like it. Its fun. Its jolly. Its a primary impulse that can be dark and difficult. Its a bit like food in that respect only more exciting. The only people who are obsessed with food are the anorexic and the morbidly obese. And that in erotic terms is the Catholic Church in a nutshell.”
Doesn’t anyone else find the Church’s (and most especially Elder Packer’s ) obsession with sex to be unnaturally and unhealthily extreme?
Homophobia is not genetic, it is a learned trait.
Professor Bradshaw did make a compelling case for the “nature” of homosexuality. However, at the end of his lecture, he digressed by making controversial statements concerning “nurture” which were unjustified, statements that even the self-identified politically active pro same-sex marriage group of clinicians, the American Psychological Association, do not support. Their website states that “although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal,
developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no
findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual
orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many
think that nature and nurture both play complex roles…”
I hope his last claims will be clarified in a future podcast.