116: John Hamer Pt. 1 — The LDS Succession Crisis of 1844 and the Beginnings of the RLDS Church

January 24, 2010
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In this episode, John Hamer discusses the LDS Succession Crisis after Joseph Smith’s death, and the ground that it laid for the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (or Community of Christ).

(Music provided courtesy of Clayton Pixton and Skype Pixton.  If you can, please email them and thank them for the music…better yet…email them and then buy an album!!!!)

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17 Responses to 116: John Hamer Pt. 1 — The LDS Succession Crisis of 1844 and the Beginnings of the RLDS Church

  1. January 25, 2010 at 2:05 am

    Great job John and John. I very much enjoyed this podcast. Thank you.

  2. January 25, 2010 at 1:12 pm

    “Skype Pixton”…LOL!
    Love this pic of John.

  3. John Nichols
    January 25, 2010 at 5:18 pm

    Hi John!

    do you happen to have a transcript or notes?

    john

  4. January 25, 2010 at 5:25 pm

    I don’t. Sorry, John.

  5. Digital Mayhem
    January 25, 2010 at 10:08 pm

    Great interview, I liked how it interwove several rich points of history. I hadn’t known the origin of the affidavits affirming Nauvoo polygamy. I had grown up thinking ill if the RLDS faith without much knowledge of their origins and tenants… they were kinda like the “other white meat” for me within my LDS bubble.

    Very good podcast, can’t wait for part 2.

  6. George Windes
    January 25, 2010 at 10:58 pm

    To the two John’s (both of which I’ve had limited contact with), I loved the podcast. You are talking of things which I studied for a half a century. I may be the only LDS missionary in history who was receiving half a dozen newsletters from small Book of Mormon believing churches, even while living amongst the Navajos.

    It was during my mission that certain events happened in France which would shock the LDS church. Eventually the Church of the Firstborn of the Fullness of Times would make an appearance. I was very involved. If you would like the inside story of those amazing days, of polygamy, new prophets, and cities of refuge… I would be happy to tell the tale.

    Thanks Gentlemen. Shalom.

  7. January 26, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    I imagine that providing transcripts of these podcasts would be a HUGE amount of work.

    If they were available, I’d want to print them up to read on subway rides.

  8. January 27, 2010 at 7:46 am

    Wonderful podcast, John and John! It comes at an appropriate time as one of my friends is converting to CofC and I’m interested to learn more. I’m hoping to attend a CofC meeting this weekend, in fact.

    Looking forward to Part 2!

  9. Richard
    January 29, 2010 at 4:35 pm

    Great Podcast from both Johns

    I knew some about the RLDS and CoC and it was great to be able to understand their position better and learn more about their history.

    Also great music from Clayton Pixton and Skye Pixton. I went to their site and bought the album!

  10. February 3, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    John Dehlin,

    I think you mischaracterize popular LDS understanding of the succession crisis. In my experience it is well known that Hyrum would have taken over had he been alive, that Joseph III was expected to be able to take over eventually, and that there was a showdown between Brigham and Sydney. Thus the whole “mantle of Joseph” story.

    I’m enjoying the podcast so far. Keep up the good work.

  11. February 3, 2010 at 12:15 pm

    John,

    You could totally be right. Sorry if I mis-characterized things. It wasn’t my intent.

    I’ll try to be more careful.

  12. February 4, 2010 at 12:21 pm

    John,

    No worries. I listened to both episodes and I found the whole thing fascinating. I learned a lot both about the succession and the Community of Christ. John Hamer certainly filled in a lot of details about the succession, my point was just that I think the general outline (and not much more) is, in my experience, common knowledge among LDS.

    I do wonder how well informed the general membership of both churches is concerning some of the historical issues raised in the interview. While touring Nauvoo and Kirtland several CoC tour guides made statements to me concerning polygamy that were both factually incorrect and disparaging. Similarly, I’m sure that LDS guides say things all the time that would frustrate visitors from a CoC or other Mormon background, as we have our own issues with church history.

    I’m glad to see the return of Mormon Stories. I’ll be consuming your bandwidth regularly.

  13. February 4, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    Thanks, John!!! Please keep the feedback coming!

  14. February 11, 2010 at 10:19 am

    ARJ: You’re right that there are members of the Community of Christ, including some of the volunteers at the historic sites, who retain beliefs about polygamy that have been discredited by historical evidence. The church’s policy is that everyone should read the sources and the best available history work and come to their own decisions. People like Richard Price, who split with the RLDS in the 1980s to form the conservative Restorationist movement, have created a large amount of apologetic literature whose tone and techniques will be familiar to anyone who has read conservative LDS apologetic literature. Although discounted by all disinterested historians, this kind of apologetics continues to enjoy a wide influence, even among Community of Christ members.

  15. Justin
    February 22, 2010 at 3:14 pm

    John -

    You are the freaking man!!
    I have listened to all of your podcasts and I was coming back to re-listen to a few and to my suprise you have new material.
    You rock! If there is anything I can do to help let me know.
    I enjoy these more than you know!

    Take care and god be with you!

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