When Douglas Stilgoe, AKA “Nemo the Mormon” on YouTube, no longer felt he could publicly sustain Mormonism’s top leadership of apostles & prophets due to multiple acts of demonstrable dishonesty, he lost one of Mormonism’s highest privileges: the ability to attend the Temple.
For Mormons, Temple worship goes FAR beyond religious ceremony. It is the gate by which believing Mormons qualify for Exaltation, the highest level of Heaven & privilege in the after-life according to Mormon theology, and by which marriages & family relationships are “sealed” together for eternity. Thus, losing the privilege of Temple worship doesn’t just risk an individual’s OWN eternal reward, but also puts one’s eternal marriage and other family ties in jeopardy, some even to the extent of believing that faithful spouses and children will be “reassigned” to a faithful stranger who will replace the unbelieving spouse or parent in Heaven.
It is also synonymous with personal “worthiness”, so any Mormons not permitted inside are often thought to be committing or in the process of repenting from egregious sins, such as adultery. Mormons who are not considered “worthy” to perform Temple ordinances themselves are also barred from even attending ordinances – like weddings – of any friends and family that take place there, another significant source of pain and alienation for some.
Naturally, Doug found it problematic that for believing Mormons, such important things as Exaltation and Eternal Family can be held hostage and denied for something as simple as refusing to agree to sustain leaders who, by virtue of a supposedly secret ordinance known as the “Second Anointing,” are exempt from any accountability towards members of the Church, even for bold, deliberate acts of harm and dishonesty.
…or are they?
This episode documents attempts made by Doug (Nemo) to get to the bottom of whether Mormon doctrines & practices meant to instill accountability from its earliest days and scripture are still applicable today, or whether they’ve become mere ritual, devoid of any meaningful significance other than virtue-signaling conformity and a continued commitment to blind obedience. As a squeaky wheel unable to be assuaged or silenced by local leadership, Nemo surprises everyone (including himself) when he manages to bypass the usual gatekeepers and break through the glass ceiling separating Mormonism’s apostles and prophets from the rank-and-file, successfully garnering the attention of none other than second highest-ranking apostle and next in line to become prophet, Dallin H. Oaks.
How did it go? Tune it to find out!
Nemo the Mormon YouTube Channel
- “Evidence of Dishonesty” – Nemo’s document
Nemo’s Coverage on Mormonism LIVE with Bill Reel, Radio Free Mormon, and John Dehlin
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Show Notes:
Mormon Stories Related Content:
- 1345: Douglas Stilgoe – Leaving the LDS Church as a Young Adult in the U.K.
- 535-539: Tom Phillips, the Second Anointing, and Mormon Apostle Jeffrey R. Holland
Coverage of Dishonest Deeds Mentioned in the Episode
- Mormon Stories Podcast
- Nemo the Mormon
- Mormon Discussions Podcasts
- Mormon Discussions
- Mormonism LIVE:
- Radio Free Mormon
- 32: Illegitimate First Presidency
- 33-35: Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3
- 51: The Dissection of Elder Quentin L Cook’s Face To Face On Church History
- 57: Bill Reel’s Disciplinary Council – The Recording
- 84: The Miracle Making of President Nelson
- 90: Does the LDS Church Continue to Hide Its History?
- 209: Christians v. Pharisees (with Peter Bleakley)
- 217: Elder Oaks is NOT a Liar!
Other:
11 Responses
Seems to me that I have read something from a general authority who admitted that mistakes have been made. I think it was Uchdorf. And Steve Benson has indicated that the Church was being dishonest when it portrayed his grandfather Ezra Taft Benson a fully engaged with Church leadership when in fact he was totally incapacitated. But for me a big problem with Mormon Leadership honesty begins with Joseph Smith denying his polygamy while practicing it to the tune of at least 32 wives on they day be told the lie. (see BH Roberts History of the Church volume 6 page 411) Then there is the the early D&C disclaimer that the Church was practicing tradition monogamy, a disclaimer used by other polygamous leaders for many years.
I am confused. I usually listen to downloaded podcasts on my device, but my #1670 on that is called “October General Conference – Panel Discussion (10/6/2022),” and I can’t find this one.
Thanks Cory! The numbering is being updated and we are a bit behind on releasing the audio for this one. I’m hoping I’ll get the file in a few hours.
Y’all really believe that was Pres. Oaks clicking buttons on the other end of that email?
Hi Timmy,
Yes. The secretary to the First Presidency is Brook P. Hales, who was part of the email exchanges. I don’t see a reason for Brook to both portray himself and as Dallin.
I’ve been an executive assistant previously and while some executives might give primary responsibility over email to an assistant, most still don’t.
The idea that someone is presenting themselves as Dallin if they aren’t presents a problem in and of itself. It’s not a rubber stamp signature on a mission call for thousands of missionaries but a direct promise to an individual to investigate something, and eventually a response, poor as it was, representing Dallin personally.
How can I obtain all the material sent back and forth to church leaders so that I can provide them to my Bishop and stake president and hold them accountable in my supporting of fellow member Douglas Stilgo? I cannot sit back and support him in my heart without sending my support in opposing from my ward the actions of those in question. I commend you in your integrity! Recently, we have had our Bishop win a provincial government lottery. $250,000.00 while on a coffee run. In my mind he has lost his integrity and the trust of the youth and membership. Did he use his power of discernment in the winning of this lottery? Anyways, please help me in obtaining these documents and correspondence so that I may send them on to my church leaders as well.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JdHLi4JH1SC5dMsaVX60mwvLECox5Qe9/view
The comparison of the Mormon hierarchy to that of the government of the People’s Republic of China is apposite. The King (albeit when he was Prince Charles and perhaps less mindful of British diplomacy than one hopes might be the case now) famously referred to the Chinese leadership as “that lot of old waxworks”. It got him into some trouble, as did several of his utterances, and led to a period of cold-shouldered relations between him and Xi Jinping. But since then, if I ever look at the Mormon leadership, dressed identically in business suits, white shirts and neckties, sitting in tiered rows – I am inevitably reminded of the waxworks analogy.
Hi, UK nevermo here. I have 2 dear friends whose whole families are members of LDS church. I found this podcast years ago when I first got to know them and was looking to understand their beliefs. I have never mentioned this to them because I think they’d find it insulting and direct me to official sources (which I have also looked at extensively). My point is, how much do you think the kind of stuff Nemo and others (“Britvengers”) talk about filters through to your average uk Mormon? These two friends are both very devout. I kind of get the impression that they believe that things like a new uk temple mean that the church is growing here. I once made the mistake of questioning Joseph Smith (years ago now) and was met with such a ferocious response I have never mentioned it since. I literally never bring their faith up any more., o know it is so deeply important to them. Recently one of them gave me a BoM which I think was pretty brave. I thanked her because I think to her it was probably the most precious gift she could give me. But I feel really sad to think that all this stuff goes on in the area of her life where she is most devoted: time, money, energy, every decision, marriage, family etc. wish she could open her eyes to some of the things like 21st Century saints. Women who are still “in” but are happy to question and try to reform things. Anyway, that’s really my question: how much do your average Mormon Uk families know about things like Britvengers?
Hi Roody, having been LDS thirty years, I can give my experience of how good the LDS church is at influencing members to not look outside official approved material.
This is the programming I received:
IF you look at something non church approved
THEN you are looking at anti Mormon material.
I was very obedient, why would I want to look at anything anti the church I loved.
This meant I actually knew very little about Mormonism as a whole.
It also meant a very lonely exit as I had no idea others were in the same position as myself.
I had never listened to a podcast in my life, but now have found some wonderful people through listening.
What is the best way to communicate with you and Nemo? E–mail? I have questions and information I would like to share with you. I am researching the Church and am even considered an “investigator” (now called “friend” of the Church). I have had good experiences with rank and file members, although I have difficulties with some of their doctrines and history. I have watched many Nemo videos and other “pro” (Mormon book reviews , Hello Saints channels) and “con” youTube programmes. I am an American Anglican. All the best to you. Any advice and counsel you can give me would be greatly appreciated.