Content warning: mentions of child abuse, assault, suicidalality
Four former Mormon Bishops – Beau, Nick, Jedd, and Rob – have an intimate discussion about the oft-hidden realities of serving in Mormon leadership, including the lack of training on handling abuse cases, near-suicidal stress levels, the painful contradictions between doctrine and human needs, and the ways bureaucratic priorities seem to trump pastoral care. With empathy and nuance, they peel back the curtain on issues like LGBTQ exclusion, leader worship, doubted spiritual ‘gifts’, unhealthy perfectionism, and the people left wounded when conference talks supersede mental health expertise – all while recognizing the very real human desire to do good amidst institutions not structured to support it.
1861: Why I Resigned as a Mormon Bishop – Nick and Amanda Jones
1771-1772: A Tongan Mormon Story – Saane Siale
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Show Notes:
- Beau Oyler
- Carol Lynn Pearson
- Faith Matters
- Nick Jones Tik Tok
- Elder Packer – “True doctrine understood”
- The First Presidency Letter on oral sex
- The Unwritten Order of Things
- Marlin K. Jensen
- Restore LDS
- The Power of Vulnerability by Brene Brown
- MSP TikTok – The Gift of a Mormon Faith Crisis
- Natahsa Helfer
- LDS Discussions
Mormon Stories Related
- 1859: A New Norm? Married Gay Mormons Get Callings & The Sacrament
- 1466-1468: Mormon Nuclear Submarine Commander & His Family – Kelly and Heather Laing
- 852-857: Two Sisters Experience a Mormon Faith Crisis – Family Ties
- 1861: Why I Resigned as a Mormon Bishop – Nick and Amanda Jones
- 1777: Honest Conversation with Mormon Bishop – Bishop Moroni Ortiz
- 1708-1709: Giving God and Mormonism Another Chance – Carol Lynn Pearson
14 Responses
Great episode. Along with their comments about hiring people to do the cleaning & other needed assistance….would also
provide EMPLOYMENT to those who could benefit from that. AND…pay them well..with benefits! The church has enough $ to do this.
A tour de force !
John, if you ever decide to rest on your laurels, you are certainly worthy.
But please don’t.
You are so needed.
One bishop was told to ‘ask more questions’. In a larger narrative, boy does that
back fire…
Minor correction. The First Presidency letter against Oral Sex WAS read over the pulpit, at least in my ward, and it seems like it was years (maybe 20) not months until it was quietly removed. By then the damage had been done. That initial prohibition became church moral policy for a generation
Rob: Brilliant insight to the very last question. The church leadership “wants both”, [the welfare of the people and the welfare of the institution] but can’t have it, given the way the institution is structured. “They choose the institution over and over again.”
Wise and heartfelt words by all four gents. I understand why my brother was drawn to the institution because of the quality of the men he was able to associate with. These are sterling people. Thanks, guys for allowing us your company and companionship. (And now I can understand and forgive some of the stuffed shirts who seemed to have wood behind their foreheads and so little expectation of me as a female. 😆)
“Enlightenment from the East” lecturer who knows the Aramaic language said “A more accurate translation is Be ye ALL INCLUSIVE even as your Father in Heaven is ALL INCLUSIVE
“instead of the one that has thousands of LDSwomen on Prozac
This is my favorite episode. As a former Bishop (for 7 years), I can relate to many of the stories and comments. What great insight from each of the four former Bishops. Thank you. I wonder how many other Bishops, Stake Presidents, and other leaders have similar experiences. Probably more than we would guess.
I applaud the vulnerability, honesty, courage, and reflections of these four bishops. I am impressed with the former bishops who have left the church and particularly impressed with newly-left Nick’s authenticity. I don’t understand Bo’s positioning at all and would like more from him when he is not in a moderator role.
Their advice to the church of “Tell the truth, tell the truth, tell the truth” triggered grief and heartache for the inter generational damage to my family sustained by the church’s many deceptions.
While I admit to not having respect for LDS women tolerating the role assigned to them by Mormon patriarchy, I understand why they have. I would like to see them take an equal place in whatever discourse is essential to action and see them claim the right to have their part matter. As Nick mentioned about not drowning in 3 feet of water, all the women have to do is Stand up.” Yes, yes, yes! May I see that in my lifetime.
Great panel and discussion! This is a great way to highlight the experiences of a particular group of LDS people. And they were all telling “Mormon Stories”.
Excellent!!
So honest and vulnerable
It wiuld be so interesting to hear from a panel of rhe wives of these leaders
Being a bishops wife or stake pres wife is equally hard in a different way
They are the unsung sacrifces
Will you do that
Thank you Dr. Dehlin for all your great work and for the inspiration you bring to all of us through your moving podcasts.
It was the best of times for our family when my husband was Bishop. Beau didn’t have a chance. It’s my last listen.
When you do the RS presidents can you have Margi do the interview? You just had a 3 hour convo with 5 white men. It would be lively to see an all women group.
I don’t normally take the time to reach out unless I am really troubled by something or unless I am incredibly impressed with something. But yesterday, I watched the episode OUR EXPERIENCES AS MORMON BISHOPS https://www.mormonstories.org/portfolio-items/mormon-bishop-panel/ and was just absolutely awestruck numerous times at the profound truth bombs that were dropped all throughout this interview. One of them left an indelible impression on me and even caused me to break down bawling. I have included the timestamps below. It was a MASSIVE eye-opener that I wish that I had, not only had at the beginning of my faith crisis, but also many years ago in my life. – If what we are doing isn’t working for us, then let’s try something different. Beau blew my mind with this one. But that entire panel of former bishops was simply STELLAR. Very cerebral. THANK YOU for this one! Now, I wait with bated breath for the Relief Society sisters panel. There’ll be some stories there that’ll blow the barnacles right off the butt cheeks of the brethren. ;)
Time Stamps:
START – 1:45:56
FINISH – 1:48:50
John: I totally enjoyed this. I was called to be a bishop at 27 years old. Had a young family, I was a spud farmer from Eastern Idaho, return missionary, Ricks college met my wife did the whole Mormon scenario. All of the experience that these Bishops share rang so true to me. I have been away from the crutch now since 1990. I was divorced after 16 years and as soon as the divorce occured myself and the whole family weas black balled by the pious Mormons in the State of Washington! The politics in the church is unreal! It’s all about the money!!Q! I would have loved to been on your panel.. Keep up your good work… I lost my five kids over the church Had I been abler to spend time with them and not so much time with all the ward problems I might have been able to salvage the family…