At 6:44pm on February 13th in Salt Lake City, Utah — an 18-year-old Salt Lake City resident and Bosnian immigrant named Sulejman Talovic entered Trolley Square mall with a shotgun and began a shooting spree. In the end, 9 people were shot, and 6 were killed, including Talovic himself. One of the witnesses to this event was Matt Lund — father of 6 children, and member of the LDS Church. This is his story.
Episode Transcript
Host: John Dehlin · Guest: Matt Lund
This transcript is machine-generated and lightly edited for readability. The audio is authoritative. Please excuse occasional errors in names and spelling.
The Trolley Square Mall Shooting: What Happened
John Dehlin [00:00:02] At 6:44pm on February 13th in Salt Lake City, Utah, an 18 year old Salt Lake City resident and Bosnian immigrant named Suleichma Talevich entered Trolley Square Mall with a shotgun and began a shooting spree. In the end, nine people were shot and six were killed, including Talevich himself. One of the witnesses to this event was Matt Lund, father of six children and member of the LDS Church. This is his story today on Mormon Stories. Matt Lund, thank you for joining us on Mormon Stories.
Matt Lund [00:00:36] You're welcome.
John Dehlin [00:00:38] What can you tell us about the event?
Matt Lund [00:00:41] Well, my wife and I were running some errands and she manages a children's clothing store down in Trolley Square. It's called the Secret Garden. It is directly south of the stationery store Tabula Rosa and across the hall and a little bit south of the Cabin Fever where several of the shootings took place.
Matt Lund [00:01:19] We were going to be there for about 10 minutes. We ran in and we were there for maybe four and five minutes and we heard some loud banging noises. I didn't think of gunfire at first. Sounded like somebody slamming the lid on a big metal dumpster.
Matt Lund [00:01:47] But as they, as they kept occurring, probably after four or five of those sounds, we were getting curious. I stood up. We were approaching the, out of the, going out of the back office and into the store and one of our employees came running towards us. She said, there's somebody in the mall shooting.
Matt Lund [00:02:19] She said, somebody's shooting out there. And so we gathered all of the customers. We had three customers in the store and then myself, my wife and this employee. And we went back into the business office of the store, which is fairly secure.
Matt Lund [00:02:41] We locked ourselves in there and, you know, listened. My wife immediately got on the phone and called 911 to tell them, you know, obviously about the shooting, but more so that we were barricaded in the office there. This whole time the shots are getting louder and louder.
John Dehlin [00:03:06] How are people? How are you feeling and how are the people that you were with feeling?
Matt Lund [00:03:13] It was quite trying. We were trying to reassure everyone that we were going to be okay and that we were safe. But the shots, which were very deliberate, it would seem as though every minute or 40 seconds or so you'd hear another one. There were big pounding shots of a shotgun. Occasionally we would hear gunfire that sounded more tinny, like a pistol. You know, we were, we didn't know if that was the gunman or if that was hope. We were hopeful that that was someone pursuing the gunman.
Matt Lund Recounts Surviving the Attack
John Dehlin [00:03:59] Were you feeling pretty safe because of where you were and how you Were locked in. Were you feeling pretty safe or were you not feeling safe?
Matt Lund [00:04:06] At first, I felt very safe. But as the shots became louder and louder, accompanied by glass breaking and screaming, it got scarier. And eventually the pounding of the gunshots and the yelling of we didn't know who. Or, you know, screaming and yelling came closer to the back end of our store.
Matt Lund [00:04:40] But we. As the pounding shots got louder and louder, Some of the gals were screaming, as you know, the shot would go. And then we were trying to quiet them down. I didn't want the gunman to hear our location for fear he might try and shoot a hole through the wall, Because I was pretty sure by then that he had a shotgun just by the sound of it.
Matt Lund [00:05:09] So we were very worried at that time, and I was just starting to contemplate whether or not we should go out into the. Out through the doorway, back into our store and try and run out the front of our store. Is that seemed to be going away from the noises that we were listening to Right about that time, Before I could try anything foolish, we heard clearly, as clear as they were on the other side of the wall from where we were, we could hear the police yell, police.
Matt Lund [00:05:56] Drop your weapons. Police. And immediately heard one last shotgun blast, followed by a barrage of gunfire. At least 10 or 15 shots, followed by silence, which was very welcomed. We were. We all just were kind of shocked at what we had just heard. We were thankful for the silence. And two police officers came into the front of the store.
Matt Lund [00:06:38] I opened the door. They came in, talked to us. They said they knew that we were in there, but they weren't ready to evacuate us because there was a report of the second gunman. In hindsight, we found out later that the second gunman was actually the Ogden police officer that was exchanging fire with the. With the gunman.
John Dehlin [00:07:04] Yeah. So tell our listeners about that. Have you read anything about who that man was and what he was trying to do and what his.
Matt Lund [00:07:11] Oh, yeah, yeah. I've read quite a bit about Officer Hammond, and he's definitely a hero in my eyes.
John Dehlin [00:07:19] Just give our listeners a quick sense for what he did.
Matt Lund [00:07:23] Well, evidently, he was eating a Rhodesio grill, which is the hallway that I just described, where the final gun battle took place, outside the rear and to the north of our store. Radizio is above that hallway. So he heard the shots starting out at a point further away than we were from the initial shots, but he heard the shots, knew what it was, told his pregnant wife that he needed go help, and without badge or any protection of, you know, a bulletproof vest or anything that you would normally have as a police officer.
Matt Lund [00:08:14] He took his firearm and tried to locate the gunman, you know, warned the gunman, tried to stop him, exchanged fire with the gunman. This, to me, is very important because he slowed this man down. He slowed this young man down, and he possibly diverted a lot of the attention of this young man and could have easily changed his course in that mall. At any given moment, you could turn a corner and be faced with either a restaurant full of people or a storefront that might be vacant. So who knows what this diversion did as far as saving possible victim.
Matt Lund [00:09:17] But we. I. We occasionally heard pistol fire, and that was Officer Hammond exchanging fire with the gunman before the Salt Lake police had arrived or. Or at least before they had organized in, you know, and gotten into the position.
John Dehlin [00:09:44] And because he was plain clothes, I imagine that there was a big risk that he would be viewed by the policeman as. As the, you know, one of the gunmen.
Matt Lund [00:09:53] Well, definitely. And that that's what took so long to evacuate the mall. Even after the gunman was taken out by the police. Both. Both Officer Hammond and the Salt Lake police, we were in there for another 45 minutes before we got out, because some of the people that fled the mall at the beginning of the ordeal saw two gunmen. They saw the gunman, and they saw Officer Hammond, both with weapons, both shooting. So the amazing thing in hindsight is that from the time we heard the first shot until the time we heard the police shoot the gunman and stop him was approximately six or seven minutes, which seems unreal to me because it seemed like 15 or 20 minutes, because every second you're wondering what's going to happen next.
John Dehlin [00:11:05] When you were allowed to leave, what did you see? Or what are you comfortable describing?
Matt Lund [00:11:12] They came back out and they let us out with two policemen in front of us and two policemen behind us, guns at the ready. It was quite surreal. It felt like we were in a war zone. As we walked out, the brick pavement of the mall was scattered with shotgun shells. I was amazed at how many shell casings I could see.
John Dehlin [00:11:45] Like five, ten.
Matt Lund [00:11:47] Oh, no, no. Every few feet, there was a shotgun shell. Every. Every five, six feet, you'd see a shell or a broken window or both. As we got into the main. As we turned the corner into the main corridor, you could look down the short hall and see a body. Appeared to be a male. Down the far hall, down by Bed Bath and beyond, you could see a body. They took us around the corner, the front of the Cabin Fever Store was shot up. The glass was broken as they took us around the corner to the we were headed north now in front of Pottery Barn kids. We saw a body of a teenage girl.
John Dehlin [00:12:52] Were the bodies covered?
Matt Lund [00:12:57] Some of them. And you know, we were walking at a fairly brisk pace, staying in between our escorts. We didn't really pause at all to really look at things, not that we wanted to. And we were all overwhelmed by what we were seeing too. It was too much to take in. You could have stopped and stood there for 10 minutes and been in awe the entire 10 minutes just looking in all directions. So it was quite an overload of scenes that we took in on the walk out. Left there at about 11:15. So we got to the mall about 6:30 and left about five hours later.
John Dehlin [00:14:04] Not quite the 15 minute trip you were expecting.
Matt Lund [00:14:07] No. And you know, I don't know why we picked that time to go there. I've thought about that quite a bit in the last few days. I don't know if there was some reason we were supposed to be there to help guide other people safety or if it was just perchance that we were there. I tend to believe that things don't happen by chance. I don't know exactly how us being there changed or helped the situation. I only hope that it did.
Faith, Trauma, and Making Sense of Tragedy
John Dehlin [00:14:53] Being a member of the LDS Church, how does faith play into this at all? Does it, you know, does your spirituality or your faith cause you to ask questions or reassure you or comfort you? How is that playing out for both you and your family? Or is it just too early to really reflect on that?
Matt Lund [00:15:18] I think it will continue. But just in the last couple of days I have felt. I have felt comforted by my faith and my testimony that everything happens for a reason and not that people need to die or bad things happen.
Matt Lund [00:15:43] But I'm a big It's a wonderful, A Wonderful Life fan. I do believe that everybody affects everybody else and that your actions, although they might seem meaningless or trivial, may have an effect on the outcome of other people's actions or livelihood.
Matt Lund [00:16:14] So for some reason Barbara and I were supposed to go down there at that time. I think the Lord knew that that was going to happen. I think that whether it was for the benefit of us to gain a greater appreciation for the life we enjoy or whether it was for the benefit of other people that may have, you know, panicked and gone the wrong way or who knows.
Matt Lund [00:16:50] But I do feel that our lives are very much intertwined. And just as Officer Hammond's actions, you know, saved lives. We're all living in this together. Nobody's in a, in a bubble where everything that happens is happening to all of us.
John Dehlin [00:17:15] How's your wife feeling? If you're comfortable talking about that?
Matt Lund [00:17:18] You know, she's doing okay. She, her and I have been trying to talk about it a lot. From all that I've read, one of the best things to do is to talk about it and to make sure that you're expressing your feelings and getting things out the.
Matt Lund [00:17:47] So I've been encouraging her to talk with me about it. She had to go back yesterday or day before yesterday to a meeting. So this was the day after the shooting. On Tuesday they had a meeting of all the managers of the different stores and discussed what happened and discussed when to reopen and things like that.
Matt Lund [00:18:18] She was amazed at how well they had cleaned up the mall since the night before and was, you know, appreciative of that effort. But at the same time, when she re entered the mall, she said it felt eerie and she didn't quite, you know, she was sort of uptight about being there again.
Matt Lund [00:18:50] So it's, I think it's going to take some time, time for all those involved to get over the trauma. I think all of these efforts by people to remember the victims and remember those who are injured and you know, pay respect, I think all those things help us through this.
Matt Lund [00:19:24] And I'm grateful for the efforts of the police. Their response was amazing and forceful and I don't see any way how they could have handled it better. And I certainly feel like they saved lives by risking their own.
Matt Lund [00:19:54] But it's, it's. I'm sure it's going to sink in and continue to give us different thoughts and impressions as to the value and the meaning of life and why we're here. Here to help each other.
John Dehlin [00:20:14] Yeah. Do we? Do we? What do we know about the gunman?
Matt Lund [00:20:21] All I know is what I've read and heard on the news. But evidently he had quite a troubled life. He grew up in war torn Bosnia and had to flee his home and was lost living as a refugee for several years with his mother without his father, not knowing if his father was alive or dead. They moved to America to try and
John Dehlin [00:20:51] get a better life and just sort of to close. How does this affect your view on life? I mean, a week ago you were living your life, had six kids, had a kid on a mission, doing whatever you do every day. Have you taken from this a new outlook or a new resolve? Is there any advice or thoughts you would offer to a listener based on what you're feeling and what you experienced?
Matt Lund [00:21:25] Well, most definitely. I've been very. The last couple days and very thankful to my Heavenly Father that our lives were not forever changed or barred by one of us losing our lives of both of us. I feel so terribly for the victims, both that are in the hospital and have passed.
Matt Lund [00:22:04] I can't imagine the anguish they're going through and their families are going through. I think that life is fragile and that you never know what's going to happen. And although this is a random thing and it doesn't happen very often, random things like this happen every day. Whether it's a car accident or shooting or natural disaster, random things happen every day to every kind of people. And so you never know, you know, how. How long you're going to be here. So you really have to cherish the time that you are here.
Matt Lund [00:22:55] And when you go through something like this and come out on the other end in one piece, it has to change the way you think. It has to make you appreciate being here that much more or else you're not. You're not in tune with what's going on.
Matt Lund [00:23:22] I'm very grateful that I'm able to continue living my life with my family and with my children. And I tend to relish every moment. And my wife and I were talking about this last night and, you know, it's just there's too many things to be thankful for, to take it for granted. So I'm sure we'll continue to learn lessons from this for some time, but definitely we've gained a new perspective on our life here on Earth, so.
Closing Thoughts and Gratitude
John Dehlin [00:24:07] Well, Matt Lund, I just want to thank you so much for coming on Mormon Stories, for sharing your stories. Our hearts and prayers go out with you and of course, with all the other victims and those who experienced this tragic event. But we really appreciate not only your willingness to share and talk about it, but the hope and the perspective that you're offering. So thank you so much.
Matt Lund [00:24:32] Thank you. I appreciate the work you're doing. Thanks again.
John Dehlin [00:24:37] This program has been a production of Mormon Stories Podcast. To comment on this episode or to peruse the archives of past episodes, please visit us online@mormonstories.org Also, please consider supporting Mormon Stories Podcast by making a contribution today. Thanks again for listening.
Transcript © 2026 John P. Dehlin. All rights reserved. Brief quotations are welcome with attribution and a link to mormonstories.org; all other use requires written permission.
One Response
Hmm, I added a link to your aggregator. I’m still not on the list there. Btw, if mormonblogs gets a grapic, I’d be glad to use that like I use the graphics for the other aggregators.