Join John and Gerardo for an epic episode on Noah and the worldwide flood, with Dr. Simon Southerton and renowned geologist Dr. David Montgomery, Professor of Geology at the University of Washington in Seattle.
We will discuss the probability of Noah’s flood being a factual historic event, and how the Mormon Church has dealt with this issue. Dr. Southerton will share an interesting Australian perspective on the flood.

Show Notes:

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7 Comments

  1. Cory Larsen May 6, 2022 at 7:27 pm - Reply

    There is another explanation that people overlook far too often- and that is that the global flood thing makes a darn good story. Yes, myths developed as links to the unseen or supernatural, or the ineffable (a la Joseph Campbell)- but I believe a great many of our “myths” started out as simply gripping narratives, invented by story tellers. Nowadays they would end up in Hollywood.

    Plutarch deduced that the “myth” of Theseus and the Minotaur started out as some guy who had to spend a few nights in a Cretan hoosegow. There was a real Paul Bunyan, who was a logger above average size. In Colchis, where Jason sailed, there is gold, and people collected the gold from the streams by using a sheepskin to trap the gold particles. These are just three examples of many more. I believe that things like the flood story may have started out as somebody’s “based on a true story” screenplay. The big mystery is how such short stories became required theological dogma. Thank you.

  2. Dave May 7, 2022 at 3:11 am - Reply

    Of courseNoahs flood is a myth and a flippin good one.
    We are all to often proving time and time again that it didn’t happen as a historical event.
    I agree with that!!!
    Most people with two brain cells or who haven’t been polluted by religion, can see that.
    So what is the value of the myth? What are the archetypes? What truths, (albeit non historical), does this story demonstrate?

  3. Teancum May 7, 2022 at 3:40 pm - Reply

    “Science is the pursuit and application of knowledge and understanding of the natural and social world following a systematic methodology based on evidence.” Source: Google.

    Religion is the pursuit and application of knowledge and understanding of the universe with the belief that the universe was created by God(s) based on revealed evidence. Source: Me

    I thought a definition of science and religion was in order. They have at least thing in common. A search for knowledge and understanding about everything.

    Science has provided many benefits to humankind. I for one honor and respect the men and women who have devoted their lives to the pursuit of knowledge and understanding. There have many hits and misses in science as one would expect.

    Religion has provided many benefits to humankind. Many people have found religion has made a huge difference in their lives. There have been many hits in misses in religion as one would expect.

    With those few thoughts in mind, I would like to briefly discuss what science is discovering about religion.

    A basic tenant of Religion (all that I am aware of) is that humankind live after dying. In recent decades medical science has found ways to resuscitate individual who have “died”, so a new science as evolved that is generally known as Near-Death Experiences (NDE). Initially, those who reported near NDE were looked at skeptically. However, over the years the number of people reporting NDE has exploded. Medical doctors who are often the first to hear about NDE are often astounded at what they are hearing from patience who have been revived. Among them are medical doctors, scientist, atheist, and believers of many faiths.

    I will leave a link of a Ted Talk given my Dr. Mary Neal, an orthopedic surgeon who died in a Kayaking accident. There are many more people from the sciences who are testifying about NDE.

    I suggest John contact Dr. Neal and do one of his interviews. She lives in Jackson Hole, Wyoming. If she she is unavailable, there are many others that could be contacted. YouTube is a good source to find such individuals.

    Dr. Bruce Greyson is a Psychiatrist and recently wrote a book about his 50 years studying NDE, “After”. A link is below.

    The University School of Medicine has a department called Scientific Study of Extraordinary Experiences. Link below.

    As a TBM who has had a few extraordinary experiences I believe Heavenly Father is communicating with mankind through NDE.

    Mary Neal
    “Science is the pursuit and application of knowledge and understanding of the natural and social world following a systematic methodology based on evidence.” Source: Google.

    Religion is the pursuit and application of knowledge and understanding of the universe with the belief that the universe was created by God(s) based on revealed evidence. Source: Me

    I thought a definition of science and religion was in order. They have at least thing in common. A search for knowledge and understanding about everything.

    Science has provided many benefits to humankind. I for one honor and respect the men and women who have devoted their lives to the pursuit of knowledge and understanding. There have many hits and misses in science as one would expect.

    Religion has provided many benefits to humankind. Many people have found religion has made a huge difference in their lives. There have been many hits in misses in religion as one would expect.

    With those few thoughts in mind I would like to briefly discuss what science is discovering about religion.

    A basic tenant of Religion (all that I am aware of) is that humankind live after dying. In recent decades medical science has found ways to resuscitate individual who have “died”, so a new science as evolved that is generally know as Near Death Experiences (NDE). Initially, those who reported near NDE were looked at skeptically. However, over the years the number of people reporting NDE has exploded. Medical doctors who are often the first to hear about NDE are often astounded at what they are hearing from patience who have been revived. Among them are medical doctors, scientist, atheist, and believers of many faiths.

    I will leave a link of a Ted Talk given my Dr. Mary Neal, an orthopedic surgeon who died in a Kayacting accident. There are many more people from the sciences who are testifying about NDE.

    I suggest John contact Dr. Neal and do one of his interviews. She lives in Jackson Hole, Wyoming. If she she is unavailable, their are many others that could be contacted. YouTube is a good source to find such individuals.

    Dr. Bruce Greyson is a Psychiatrist and recently wrote a book about his 50 years studying NDE, “After”. A link is below.

    The University School of Medicine has a department called Scientific Study of Extraordinary Experiences. Link below.

    As a TBM who has had a few extraordinary experiences I believe Heavenly Father is communicating with mankind through NDE.

    Mary Neal
    “Science is the pursuit and application of knowledge and understanding of the natural and social world following a systematic methodology based on evidence.” Source: Google.

    Religion is the pursuit and application of knowledge and understanding of the universe with the belief that the universe was created by God(s) based on revealed evidence. Source: Me

    I thought a definition of science and religion was in order. They have at least thing in common. A search for knowledge and understanding about everything.

    Science has provided many benefits to humankind. I for one honor and respect the men and women who have devoted their lives to the pursuit of knowledge and understanding. There have many hits and misses in science as one would expect.

    Religion has provided many benefits to humankind. Many people have found religion has made a huge difference in their lives. There have been many hits in misses in religion as one would expect.

    With those few thoughts in mind I would like to briefly discuss what science is discovering about religion.

    A basic tenant of Religion (all that I am aware of) is that humankind live after dying. In recent decades medical science has found ways to resuscitate individual who have “died”, so a new science as evolved that is generally know as Near Death Experiences (NDE). Initially, those who reported near NDE were looked at skeptically. However, over the years the number of people reporting NDE has exploded. Medical doctors who are often the first to hear about NDE are often astounded at what they are hearing from patience who have been revived. Among them are medical doctors, scientist, atheist, and believers of many faiths.

    I will leave a link of a Ted Talk given my Dr. Mary Neal, an orthopedic surgeon who died in a Kayacting accident. There are many more people from the sciences who are testifying about NDE.

    I suggest John contact Dr. Neal and do one of his interviews. She lives in Jackson Hole, Wyoming. If she she is unavailable, their are many others that could be contacted. YouTube is a good source to find such individuals.

    Dr. Bruce Greyson is a Psychiatrist and recently wrote a book about his 50 years studying NDE, “After”. A link is below.

    The University School of Medicine has a department called, Scientific Study of Extraordinary Experiences. Link below.

    As a TBM who has had a few extraordinary experiences I believe Heavenly Father is communicating with mankind through NDE.

    Note: I tried to leave links but Mormon Stories comment policy wouldn’t allow it. If you search Google you will be able to find what I referred to.

  4. Teancum May 7, 2022 at 3:50 pm - Reply

    “Science is the pursuit and application of knowledge and understanding of the natural and social world following a systematic methodology based on evidence.” Source: Google.

    Religion is the pursuit and application of knowledge and understanding of the universe with the belief that the universe was created by God(s) based on revealed evidence. Source: Me

    I thought a definition of science and religion was in order. They have at least thing in common. A search for knowledge and understanding about everything.

    Science has provided many benefits to humankind. I for one honor and respect the men and women who have devoted their lives to the pursuit of knowledge and understanding. There have many hits and misses in science as one would expect.

    Religion has provided many benefits to humankind. Many people have found religion has made a huge difference in their lives. There have been many hits in misses in religion as one would expect.

    With those few thoughts in mind I would like to briefly discuss what science is discovering about religion.

    A basic tenant of Religion (all that I am aware of) is that humankind live after dying. In recent decades medical science has found ways to resuscitate individual who have “died”, so a new science as evolved that is generally know as Near Death Experiences (NDE). Initially, those who reported near NDE were looked at skeptically. However, over the years the number of people reporting NDE has exploded. Medical doctors who are often the first to hear about NDE are often astounded at what they are hearing from patience who have been revived. Among them are medical doctors, scientist, atheist, and believers of many faiths.

    I will leave a link of a Ted Talk given my Dr. Mary Neal, an orthopedic surgeon who died in a Kayacting accident. There are many more people from the sciences who are testifying about NDE.

    I suggest John contact Dr. Neal and do one of his interviews. She lives in Jackson Hole, Wyoming. If she she is unavailable, their are many others that could be contacted. YouTube is a good source to find such individuals.

    Dr. Bruce Greyson is a Psychiatrist and recently wrote a book about his 50 years studying NDE, “After”. A link is below.

    The University School of Medicine has a department called Scientific Study of Extraordinary Experiences. Link below.

    As a TBM who has had a few extraordinary experiences I believe Heavenly Father is communicating with mankind through NDE.

  5. JG May 8, 2022 at 10:15 am - Reply

    All organizations that claim to speak for God are regularly confronted with the folly of some of their past divine inspiration. We already know the LDS church’s playbook for dealing with the global flood. First it will drop out of the curriculum, and then a stealth essay will show up explaining that one need not take the myth literally.

  6. Holly May 12, 2022 at 12:45 pm - Reply

    Bravo!! Amazing episode so thank you to all involved. I could feel my brain growing lol. I can’t wait for more in this series.

  7. Supernaut May 21, 2022 at 5:47 pm - Reply

    Slight correction: We certainly have at least one native species of marsupial in North America… the Virginia Opossum, colloquially known as just “possum.” In fact the word for these marsupials comes from Algonquin, “wapathemwa,” so this creature lent its name to all South American and Australian bearers of the moniker!
    It’s extremely widespread and common east of the Rocky Mountains, from Mesoamerica through New England, and is introduced on the West Coast. It almost certainly evolved from South American opossums and migrated north during The Great American Interchange that started at the end of the Pliocene.
    Despite being a relatively large animal they live fast and die young, rarely making it to the age of 3 even in the best of care. But they’re among the most successful opportunists on the continent, having competed with raccoons and crows and still thrived. And it must be said they’re really rocking that retro “fingerless gloves” look!

    However, the paucity of marsupial diversity (only ONE species in the entire CONUS) does drive home the point about biogeography not favoring the Deluge model. And why shouldn’t we have any monotremes? There are no surviving egg-laying mammals anywhere but the Aussie side of the Wallace Line.

    It’s interesting how live birth evolved multiple times in multiple vertebrates, each one in a slightly different way due to different circumstances of natural history. There are no “placental” snakes, lizards, sharks, guppies, or even marsupials. What’s more, the further away on the family tree these creatures are the more likely they are to have a different live birth process. Yet if they’re closer on the tree, they’re likely to have similar processes to each other.

    An all-powerful and miracle-prone Creator, unshackled by the “legacy code” of natural history and creating each life form independently, wouldn’t have to be so limited as to come up with a different way of arriving at live birth across multiple lineages and then sticking with it for their offshoots. The existence of different animal lineages using different methods from each other to come up with the same end result (live birth) argues pretty strongly for the evolutionary explanation.

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